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Good afternoon John. Thank you for your previous help. I had a few more questions for you so here goes. I was taught that once saved always saved but the bible seems to specify other wise. In 1 cor 5:13 it says expel the wicked man.(whom calls himself a brother who *takes part* in the sins listed. If a person is fornicating (not someone whom is weak or falls into temptation etc.) but a person whom does not want to give up fornication are they still saved? If so how? The bible seems to say that the person is wicked. What exactly is a backslider? My belief is it is one whom was weak or went back into sin(they still believe in God but they have "gone astray" maybe "chasing" other things. Is this correct? If you will please add any further definition to what a backslider is. I read a little about the sin of apostasy. Is the backslider guilty of the sin of apostasy? (rejecting the faith? They did leave God and go back to sin...). The bible says that God is married to the back slider...I believe if Jesus was to come back and the person is in a "backslidden" state he would leave that person. I also believe that a person whom is a back slider is no longer saved. Is this correct? Last question(s).. Psalm 7:11 says that God is angry with the wicked every day. Who exactly are the wicked? The bible also says that God is patient, kind and not easily angered... so how is God angry with the wicked every day? What is idolatry exactly? I believe that it takes time for a person to grow out of certain things. Some people can give up all and some can not instantly. If a saved person rebels in an area are they guilty of idolatry? Example I choose to listen to some music that sings about fornication but I like the sound of the person's voice etc. would I be guilty of idolatry? Thanks for your help with my many questions.My Reply
Hi,
Q: I was taught that once saved always saved but the bible seems to specify other wise.
A: No, the Bible clearly teaches the Doctrine of Eternal Security (i.e. Once Saved Always Saved). The verses that seem to teach otherwise are not talking about salvation but about living the Christian life. These two different although related things.
Salvation is the result God's love toward us not the result of our works or acts of righteousness. Consider Ephesians 2:10 that as Believers we are made his 'workmanship created in Christ Jesus'. Such works are our "reasonable service" since we have been saved (Romans 12:1). Works neither save us nor keep us saved. We are saved and kept saved solely by God's Grace (Ephesian 2:8).
Christ's love for us is made known by his empowering us to keep God's commandments (which in our our flesh we can not do) and to live as daily sacrifices (imperfect though we be).
John makes this point clear:
I John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.The word "record" here is "marturia" and translates as “evidence” or “proof.”
God has given us "proof" that He hath ("echo¯")" (past tense) given us "aio¯nios" or “perpetual,” “eternal” life. It will not end (John 2:28), it keeps “echoing,” so to speak. We have solid proof of this fact because at some point we accepted the free gift of salvation and that Word of God continues keeping us saved.
He that hath (present tense) the Son hath (present tense) the eternal, “unending” life now and for ever.
John's point is clearly that once we are saved we are “eternally” saved. Something that is eternal never ends, it is not dependent on other factors for its continuance. Hence Jesus said: “It is finished” (John 19:30). When one accepts Jesus as his/her sacrifice for sin it is finished. That person is eternally saved.
Jesus clearly said:
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.again:
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.If the Father has given a person to Jesus (ie if one has been saved) Jesus is clear that -- other than Judas -- he will lose none of them the Father places in his hand. So... if one has been saved one will remain saved, not by our power, but by God's Grace.
Under the Torah one had to continually present a sacrifice, but under the New Covenant:
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:The work is finished. One sacrifice. One offering.
10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;There is nothing we can do to be saved -- even the faith to accept the gift of salvation is a gift of God's grace lest we should boast (Ephesian 2:8) -- nor is there anything we can do to stay saved.
AND if we could fall away to the point of losing our salvation the author of the Letter to the Hebrew says this:
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.By the way in verse 6, "If they" or "kai" does not suggest it is possible that they might, but prepares a "what-if" scenario. Its used in many different ways.
So... If we could lose our salvation we would never be able to reclaim it. John's point therefore in I John 5 is that the Believers should not worry. They should stand in faith certain of their salvation. God knows we are all weak but He will keep us saved. How can we be sure? Because we KNOW there was a point when we became a son or daughter of God for all eternity, there was a time when we accepted Jesus as our personal savior (as I did in 1969) and that from that point GOD will keep us saved. I've erred many times since 1969 but my salvation has remained secure because I neither earned it nor deserved it. It is a gift. This is how it is with all who have been truly saved. This is our assurance.
Q: I cor 5:13 it says expel the wicked man.(whom calls himself a brother who *takes part* in the sins listed. A:This passage explains itself: ...But them that are without God judgeth.
Those who are outside of the faith, with God, i.e. they have never been saved. Many people who call themselves Christians have never been saved and if these people are disruption they sometimes need to be removed from the congregation.
Q:If a person is fornicating (not someone whom is weak or falls into temptation etc.) but a person whom does not want to give up fornication are they still saved?
A:Such a person should seriously question whether or not they ever really received the gift of God’s salvation. That’s between them and the Lord of cuorse, but the Bible is clear that all fall short, including Christians, and that Jesus serves as our High Priest (Hebrews 4:15).
Q: My belief is it is one whom was weak or went back into sin(they still believe in God but they have "gone astray" maybe "chasing" other things. Is this correct?
A:The idea of "backsliding" is not in the Bible. The word signifies a a saved person is not living according to the Scriptural guidelines and/or leading of the Holy Spirit. "Backslider" needs to repent and resume their walk with Christ, but they remain saved.
"Apostasy" refers to teachings not taught by the Apostles. There is a lot of apostasy in all segments of the Church. Salvation is God's free gift. As much as it possible Believers should avoid apostasy and stick to the biblical doctrines only. But again, with regards to your question, what saves a person is accepting Jesus as ones "Passover Lamb." Once this has been done, one is saved for all eternity.
Q: The bible says that God is married to the back slider...
A:Not too be too picky, but the Jews are the "Wife of God" and the Church is the "Bride of Christ."
Q: I believe if Jesus was to come back and the person is in a "backslidden" state he would leave that person. I also believe that a person whom is a back slider is no longer saved. Is this correct?
A:If so then salvation is of works and those he does not leave could "boast" that they were taken with him because they had not "backslidden." Our doctrines must be based on the Scriptures, not human reason. Salvation is the free gift of God, not of works, let any might boast (Ephesian 2).
People can not be good enough to get saved nor good enough to stay saved.
Q: Psalm 7:11 says that God is angry with the wicked every day. Who exactly are the wicked?
A:
Psalms 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.The "righteous" are the tsaddıyq, those who obey God's Laws. The words "with the wicked" are not in the original text. These words were added to clarify the point. If you are using a King James Version of the Bible you will (probably) find that these words are in italics, this is why. The JPS (Jewish Publication Society) Bible is more accurate here:
God is a righteous judge, yea, a God that hath indignation every dayThe meaning is that God is holy and is offended by the sins of humanity continually. This is why He gave the Torah to Moses and later sent Jesus as the final atonement for sin.
Q: The bible also says that God is patient, kind and not easily angered... so how is God angry with the wicked every day?
A:Despite the prevalence of sin in the world God does not wave His hand and destroy us. As a loving Father who sees his child walking down the wrong path He weeps for our error. This is the same teaching as Jesus' parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32).
Q: What is idolatry exactly?
A:An idol is anything we place above God. So, if one worship a statue above God that is literal idol worship but if one places undue importance on say one car, ones physical appearance, one status in the community, even ones spouse and children -- if one places anything above God that thing is an idol. this is clarified here:
1Co 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?Anything we place above God "provokes Him to jealousy" and is idolatry.
Q: I believe that it takes time for a person to grow out of certain things. Some people can give up all and some can not instantly. If a saved person rebels in an area are they guilty of idolatry? Example I choose to listen to some music that sings about fornication but I like the sound of the person's voice etc. would I be guilty of idolatry?
A:Absolutely. Fortunately our salvation is not based in our efforts! As a person grows in the Lord, if they are sincere about their spiritual growth (not just their salvation) such things will be dropped, whether quickly or gradually.
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Maranatha!
John of AllFaith
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