Questioner: God with unsaved people
Subject: God with unsaved peopleQuestion:
- I would like to know to what extent God interferes in the lives of unsaved people. Does He bless them at anytime? Does He chastise them? In India, Hindus believe the idols they worship have the power to
answer their prayers and do have some of their prayers supposedly answered. What is devil’s role in this situation? Some childless couple get children after praying to idols for the same. Why would God allow such scenarios where devil takes the glory?
John of AllFaith's reply
Hi Lenin,I answer questions from several different categories. Typically I am careful to answer according to the category the question is asked in. You asked this question under "Christian Living," so I will answer from this perspective. Frankly however I do not believe this is the complete answer and invite you to write back if you would like this answered from a more interfaith perspective. This one will be from a traditional Christian perspective.
From a traditional Christian perspective...
God's Grace can be considered in two forms, the first is what is known as "Common Grace," the Second is "Saving Grace."
"Common Grace" is that Grace that God bestows freely upon the planet and all its inhabitants. It is this divine Grace that enables plants to grow, the sun to shine, rivers to flow and so on. Common Grace is completely free to everyone. There is nothing we need do to enjoy its full benefits. As we read at Romans 1:20:
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"For the invisible things of God since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even God's everlasting power and divinity; so that everyone is without excuse."
This Grace is bestowed on all.
Saving Grace is available only Christians. This is the communion of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Typically God does not interfere in the lives of the unsaved, although He does as He wills. From time to time the unsaved are placed under the conviction of the Holy Spirit in an attempt to draw them to repentance.
At other times, due to the prayers of Christians, God may bless and direct an unsaved person. It is impossible to second guess the workings of God.
As for India...
From a traditional Christian outlook, the gods and goddesses of India are seen as "nothing."
- I Corinthians 8:1 Now as concerning things offered to idols...
4 ... Therefore as concerning the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
5 For though there are that are called gods, whether in heaven or upon earth, (as there are gods many, and lords many)
6 Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 But there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol to this hour eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled....
From such scriptures it is concluded that the gods of the nations are nothing, mere imagination, superstition and are thus incapable of anything.
Sometimes however, as you say, these gods (or their images) seem to work wonders. As one who has been to India I can confirm that there is power there. People are healed, the dead are are raised, impossible feats are performed...
From a traditional Christian perspective, these occurrences, and they do occur, must be done by the power of Satan because the idol is, of itself, "nothing." Some might argue in favor of psychosomatics and so on, but when the powers are super-natural, the traditional explanation is demonic.
As for why God would allow such things, God has granted us free will and as such, if one wishes to be deceived, God grants this ability.
This would be the traditional Christian view.
If you are interested in a more interfaith reply, let me know.
- ~John of AllFaith
Follow up
Thank you for the response. I was born in India for Hindu parents and accepted Christ few years ago. Most Hindus in India do not really give any thought to the idea of heaven and hell. For the very few who do, they don't have clear teachings on what these places are and how to get to heaven. For them God is to meet their worldly needs.And since these idols seem to answer their prayers, they are very satisfied with their lives. I was just wondering if I could tell my Hindu relatives/friends what these idols are and the power behind them and help them see who Jesus is.
I would appreciate if you could add more of your thoughts.
- Lenin
Reply
Hi Lenin,Thanks for clarifying your intentions,
In such questions I'm never sure how much information the questioner wants. Simply stated, I would advise presenting the Gospel to them rather than focusing on the various aspects of Hinduism. The role of murtis ("idols") in Hinduism is very essential to their faith and focusing on this seems ineffective to me.
What you will want to explain to them is why and how Jesus died for their sins and why and how they should accept this gift and embrace the Christian faith, not why they should abandon the murtis. If they accept conversion, they will doubtless abandon the images of Hindu worship in good time.
It will be very easy for you to become bogged down in deeply philosophical and religious discussions that you may not be prepared for. I would therefore advise you to focus on Jesus Christ and him crucified and stick to that.
To be honest with you, the Hindu religion is much more well-developed and spiritually deep than you may be aware. If your hearers are knowledgeable about their religion, such dismissals may well force you to confront more informed objections you are not prepared for. The following is therefore offered as food for thought as you enter into these discussions.
Like all other religions, not all Hindus understand their beliefs, but many do, and these objections will probably be raised.
For most Christians, salvation consists of accepting Jesus' death burial and resurrection and applying his sacrifice to oneself. In other words, Christians accept that Jesus died for our sins and thereby we are saved. Its fairly straight forward.
For Hindus, there are the teachings of karma (action and reaction) dharma (divine intervention and universal truth) and marga (the subsequent course one walks) where there are systematic methods and explanations for why we suffer and commit 'sins' and how we can overcome our situation and how the Ek Devata (the One God by whatever name) patiently leads us life after life to eventual liberation (mukta/moksa).
Because of the depths of Hindu teachings and understandings, Hindus will usually want more detailed information on how sin entered the world and how Jesus' death counteracts it.
You will want to be well versed in these topics. If you need more information on this let me know.
For the Dvaita (dualist) Hindus the working out of these three facets still requires the grace of God, as is explained in the Bhagavad Gita and in so many other scriptures. You can build on this by explaining how Christianity views original (Adamic) sin, personal sins, and their results as well as the impact of continuing sins on the individual, and on our ultimate dependence on God's Grace.
As for Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, Hindus will ask why this is true? How did the death of Jesus 2000 years ago atone for the sins of the world today and specifically for mine (for yours)? Believing as they do in personal and group karma, Hindus will question how an event such as this could eradicate personal karma (responsibility).
Of course there are theological answers for this, I'm sure you know them, if not I'll be happy to explain them, just ask. But you will want to be ready to explain how Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8), how he died for our sins (John 3:16) and so on. Many Hindus are very detail orientated when it comes to such topics.
Hindus rely on faith as well as Christians, but their religious views are often more pragmatic. For instance, karma yoga is a way of spiritual development based on one's ability to devote all activities to God (compare Col 3:17). Hence, just living one's life is itself a spiritual practice if done consciously. In this way, devout Hindus seek to be "in the world but not of it."
Faith in Jesus is therefore an essential aspect of Christianity in ways it is not for most Hindus. For Christians, the central issue is that Jesus (who is generally accepted as the incarnation of the Hebrew God) 2000 years ago offered himself as a ransom for the sins of the world.
This teaching does not exist within Hinduism, which stresses personal responsibility and karma over grace, and so you will want to focus on explaining this with verses such as "not by works lest any might boast."
Be ready for this likely response: Jesus' incarnation is like Sri Krsna's, who is accepted as the avatar of Lord Visnu, and he predates Jesus by at least 3000 years.
The idea of God incarnating on earth is not at all alien to Hindu thought. You will need to show why Jesus' incarnation was unique.
Like Christianity, Hinduism is somewhat based on faith. Both religions can also offer objective evidence for their beliefs and the faithful accept these evidences. Both the murtis and the Christian icons are known to heal. Both religions have faith healers who do remarkable deeds, including raising the dead, walking on the water and so on.
It will likely be pointed out that Hinduism also has its virgin births and avatars, many of them, as well as countless remarkable deeds, so from that perspective there is nothing unique about Christianity to Hindus. This will not be an effective basis for their conversion.
The Christian message is ultimately a matter of faith, through devotion. For Hindus, this devotion is known as bhakti-yoga, one of the primary yoga systems.
When Christians describe their relationship with Jesus, Hindus understand that he is our diksa guru through a ritvic parampara (a disciplic succession based on an original guru rather than on his successors. In the case of Catholicism this succession is directly presented as being passed down through the Apostle Peter), the Bible seems to be our siksa guru and sastra (as in Sikhism), and Christian living becomes our sadhana (or spiritual practice). So, the Hindu will ask how this is different from what they believe already. Why isn't Jesus simply another Guru?
To the Hindu mind, there doesn't seem to be anything about Christianity that is different from say Vaisnava Hinduism or Sikhism. Merely the outward expressions seem different. Christianity employs Indo-European cultural themes whereas Hinduism employs Indian themes without much European influence, there is some. Getting a devout Hindu to understand that Jesus is not simply another Guru Maharaja is therefore difficult. If he is just anther Guru, they will reason, why do they need him?
Of course, Christians accept that Jesus was/is much more than this, that he is truly God in the flesh, the once and for all time sacrifice meant to save all humankind who will accept him, that there is no other way to reconcile with God than he.
But understand that this is a matter of faith and, biblically speaking, something that no one can really accept on their own! Even the faith to believe this "is a Gift of God":
Eph 2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Hence, pray for them to receive this gift of faith.
If your loved ones know the Hindu religion well, they will know that statements like you made here are simply not accurate... No offense is intended by this observation. You will do better in your quest to convert them if you focus on why Christianity is true rather than on why Hinduism is not.
The reason why Hinduism is the only ancient religion that is still a world religion today -- it is the 3rd largest -- is because of the profound depths of its spiritual wisdom, the experiential proof of its claims and the sublime heights to which many of its practitioners attain. You will need to demonstrate Christianity offers something greater, eternal life.
As for the murti forms of the deities (i.e. the 'idols') many Hindus do not properly understand them themselves, and even fewer Christians do. Hindus sense the presence of God in them and accept them as they are. In my opinion, these are in no way demonic. They are simply essential components of the Hindu religion. Basing your attempts at conversion on rejecting the murtis doesn't effective to me.
Hope this has helped in some way,
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~John of AllFaith
Follow up
Firstly I thank God that I came to the right person on this topic. I was surprised by your knowledge on Hinduism. Though I was born in a Hindu family, I neither followed the religion nor learned it.My family members were never any knowledgeable about the religion either. I became an atheist when I was very young and stayed so until before coming to Christ three years ago (now I’m 40 years).
Thank you for indicating that my view on Hinduism is inaccurate and providing the brief introduction of what that religion is about.
Now as for more information you are willing to provide on how sin entered the world, how Jesus’ death counteracts it and how did the death of Jesus 2000 years ago atone for the sins of the world today and eradicate personal karma, I am very eager to receive them (not just to answer the Hindus but also to know myself).
I appreciate your personal interest in my growth.
Sincerely,
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Lenin
Reply
Hi Lenin,Always glad to help,
In a nutshell,
In Genesis, humankind falls into the sin of rebellion. Adam and Eve rebelled against God's authority (the specific fruit they ate is secondary). As a result of their rebellion, they were cast out of the Garden.
We are told at Genesis 3:15 that God cursed the human race because of the fall (because of their rebellion). Unto the human family God imparted a "seed nature" that was passed down through all generations of human kind. This is why it was vital that Jesus not have a human father, he was born without this sin nature.
Like Hinduism, Christianity is a very diverse religion and not all Christians agree on all points. In the main however, most will agree that everyone is "born into sin" (besides Jesus) and because of this sin, 'the sin of Adam', everyone is destined to Hell (Hinduism has no similar concept of eternal torment or of inherited original sin).
In time God chose the Jews to reveal His plan for humankind. Through them came Moses (who wrote the first five books of the Bible (the Torah or Pentateuch). According to Jewish Law, "Without the shedding of blood no flesh can be saved."
Christians believe that Jesus, born of a virgin (without the sin nature) was sacrificed on the cross for the sins of the world, thus by the shedding of his blood, people can be "saved" from the inherited 'sin of Adam'. Those who are, are guarantied eternal life, those who do receive this "free gift" are eternally lost.
Hinduism has a series of hells (patalas) but these are of temporary duration. The idea of eternal torture in Hell is an utterly alien notion for Hindus (and Jews) and one they find very difficult to accept, especially when coupled with the assurance that "God is love." This seems like a major contradiction to Hindus.
For Christians, it is not God who sends people to Hell, it is their own unbelief and lack of acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice. Jesus will save anyone who asked for salvation, all others will spend eternity in Hell in unending torment.
For Christians, Jesus is the second Adam:
- I Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
This is a vital teaching for Christians. Adam sinned and so all of his offspring are concieved in sin (Gen 3:15, Psalms 51:5). Jesus came to reverse the effects of this sin.
Again, Hinduism does not have the idea of original sin. For Hindus, one originally enters the world without sin (not as the baby this time, but in ages past). With every committed action (karma) reactions (karma) accrues. There is no separating action and reaction. They are bound together. In a sense, the karma of our pasts can be compared (though imperfectly) to the sin of Adam. These are sins that we currently have no control over. They are past, and yet they continue to influence us.
For Christians, at the point we accept Jesus all of our past sins are washed away (including the sin of Adam).
For Hindus, when they accept a diksa guru all previous sins are transferred to the guru (i.e. are 'washed away') and the person practices prescribed sadhana (spiritual practices) to attain liberation.
Here is where the Christian can make a vital point. In Jesus all future sins are also "under the blood." So then if I, as a Christian who accepted Jesus when I was 12 years old, sin, the negative impacts of my sins (my 'karmic reactions') are covered. The Bible is clear that if we say we do not sin we are lying, everyone sins. For the Christian, these current and future sins are already "paid for" by Jesus' death, burial and ressurection. This is a main difference, objectively speaking, between the two religions. How is human weakness and sin neutralized.
In the end, as I've said, it is a question of faith. Does one believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and that this action and its acceptance by an individual brings one to eternal life? If so, one will repent of his/her sins and accept the gift of the Gospel. To convert Hindus, this is the message that must be explained in my opinion, in ways the person can receive. There is no "right way" to present the Gospel of Jesus. As Paul said, "When in Rome spak like the Romans, and to the Greeks as a Greek.
May God bless,
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~John of AllFaith
Follow up
- Thank you so much. This helps me to a great extent. One more thing to clarify.
You said 'Unto the human family God imparted a "seed nature" that was passed down through all generations of human kind. This is why it was vital that Jesus not have a human father, he was born without this sin nature.'
Is there any verse that directly indicates the necessity of Jesus' not having a human father?
Sincerely,
-
Lenin
Reply by John of AllFaith
Hi again,This follow-up question has just sparked an interesting discussion between my wife and I. There is not a verse in the Bible that specifically states this, no. However I believe this doctrine is very clear from the accumulated teachings of the scriptures. Here's why:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I Cor 15:22
We all die 'in Adam'. How does this happen:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17
Adam and Eve ate the fruit, and as a result "in Adam" all die. Why in Adam? God told Adam not to eat, Adam told Eve. Therefore, Adam disobeyed God, but Eve only disobeyed Adam. He therefore has the greater guilt.
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalms 51:5
So, "in Adam" we all die. Why? Because we are "conceived in sin." Our mothers bear us, but we are conceived in sin 'in Adam'. Hence, it seems clear that the sin nature passes from the father to the child at the moment of conception, when life begins.
"For he [God] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." II Cor 5:21
Unlike every other human being who has ever lived, Jesus had no sin. Since everyone else was 'conceived' in Adam's sin, this must be how the sin nature is passed on, and yet Jesus didn't have it. So, what was different about Jesus than other people?
"And I will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Gen 3:15.
Note that the enmity is placed between Satan and 'the seed of the woman'. Ordinary "seed" is masculine, but here the seed is of a woman.
What makes Jesus unique is his virgin birth.
Matt 1:23: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us"
Now of course this verse is often debated. We can get into this if you wish, but traditional Christian doctrine is that she was a virgin, as the Authorized King James Version flatly says here. It is argued that even though an "almah" is a "maiden" not a "virgin," for an unmarried teenage girl in that culture and time not to be a virgin would have disqualified her from being a "maiden" properly speaking. Besides, the text specifically states that Joseph had not had relations with her yet:
"...And [Joseph] knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS" (verse 25). It is obvious therefore that despite the word almah, the context is that she was a virgin.
Like all people, Jesus had a human mother, but he did not have a human father according to the Bible.
To me, the meaning is clear:
Adam did not have a human father.
Jesus did not have a human father.
Adam and Eve had no children prior to the entrance of sin.
All of their children were 'conceived in Adam's sin'...
Except one, the one that had no father, the one who was the Seed of the woman.
If Jesus had had a human father he, like all other humans, would have been conceived in sin. If he was conceived in sin, he was not a pure offering without spot of blemish:
Heb 9:13: "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
In order to be the sacrifice, Jesus had to be without the spot and blemish of sin. This is why there is so much stress on the purity of his "blood."
To me, this is the clear biblical teaching and it is what separates Christianity from all other religions.
Maranatha
The Lord cometh,
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~John of AllFaith
Follow-up
- Thank you again. I was going to ask you how Jesus born of a woman could be called sinless since every human inherited the sin nature from Adam, but your response touched that point too.
May God continue to bless your family for the work that you do. Btw, I tried to rate you but allexperts says you don't accept ratings.
Sincerely,
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Lenin
Hi Lenin,
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Thanks, I'm always happy to share information on such topics.
I turned off my ratings option long ago. I know that I offer the best replies I can. While I always appreciate feedback, the ratings system was a distraction to why I volunteer. Without concern for such things, I am free to reply openly despite the controversial nature of some of the questions I receive.
Write back anytime, ~John of AllFaith
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