- First, I should point out that AllFaith.com does not "promote politically correct anti-conservative bigotry." On some topics I am liberal while on others I am quite conservative. My positions are close to 50-50, liberal/Conservative (though it would be inaccurate to think of me as a moderate either). What I, and hence AllFaith.com, stands for is what I believe to be true and correct on any given topic. Political correctness does not enter into it.
- For example, much of the Left is becoming more and more anti-Semitic and calling for the destruction of Israel, something that I strongly oppose as my homepage currently shows. I also oppose abortion, stem cell research, cloning, etc., things the Left typically supports. On the other hand, I oppose the empire building the US is doing, the attacks on sexual and racial minority rights including the opposition to gays in the military, as well as the destruction of our civil rights by the so-called Patriot Act, and the development of the corporate-controlled New World Order (which I believe will soon usher in reign of the Antichrist), which are Left of center positions I suppose.
- As for the Jesse Dirkhising murder, I don't know enough about the case to comment with much specificity, however whether this young man chose to have sexual relations with these older men or not is clearly irrelevant. There is absolutely no justification for actions such as you describe. Do you honestly believe that anyone on the political Left would approve of this horror? I can't image such a thing being approved by anyone, gay or straight, Left of Right of the politivcal center!
- In your post you condemn "gay pedophilia." I concur completely. Such is abhorrent! But surely you are aware of the fact that the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual males? Presumably you condemn their actions as well? I certainly do. Such abuses perpetrated by these heterosexual male pedophiles is what leads many boys and girls to investigate a homosexual identity in the first place. Not everyone in the GLBT community as really gay you know. Some are escaping the sexual abuses of heterosexual offenders. In time most of these people return to the heterosexual lifestyle.
- Homosexuals are human beings like all others. I have met so many lesbians and gay men who speak of being raped by their heterosexual fathers, brothers, mothers, family friends etc. One dear lesbian Christian friend was repeatedly raped by her father from the time she was nine years old until she ran away from home at seventeen and found refuge at her local UFMCC (Lavender Road Metropolitan Community Church in Santa Cruz). Her father remains a well respected local Methodist minister! Hers is not such an unusual case unfortunately.
- Within the gay community one will find all the evils found within the general population. You will also find all the desirable qualities there. There is a MAJOR difference between committed same-gender marriages, which the Bible nowhere condemns, and acts of rape and abject hedonism, which it does. Such is condemned regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or the victim.
- As for why Matthew's case produced more media attention is an easy one. There are no religious ministries, books, movies, ads and thousands of years of prejudice calling for the rape, stoning, torture and murder of heterosexuals (I'm assuming from your post that Jesse Dirkhising was straight). There is such active prejudice directed against the gay communities. Matthew's murder struck a cord in the hearts of many people who understand that such attacks are not so uncommon and the vast majority of them go unnoticed by the media. The outrage generated by this murder has slightly bettered the condition of gay people by bringing the subject out into the open, only slightly.
- The event you described is horrible and my heart goes out to all of those who knew and loved Jesse Dirkhising, however the two murders have nothing in common, other than being examples of human evil. However another important difference in the cases is that in Matthew's hometown a number of people said he had it coming or that the murderers should be pardoned because, after all, 'Matt was only a queer and Larami doesn't like perverts.' Are there websites with a photo of Jesse sitting in flames and counting down the number of days he has been in Hell? The Baptist Church site godhatesfags.com has such a page. Do heterosexuals like Jesse and his community have their weddings and funerals picketed by hateful men waving Bible's and obscene signs? Does a portion of the nation's spiritual leaders condemn Jesse from their pulpits, on their radio and TV shows etc.? Are there organizations like your WTV Coalition using tax payer's dollars to deny equal rights to heterosexuals like Jesse? Nope. The two cases are completely different and to draw any comparison between them shows a lack of respect for both victims. Both were killed by people who should be severely punished for their crimes. Both murders were wrong.
- The gay community must live with such hatred as you promote day in and day out. Thousands of gays and lesbians seek Christ only to be told that God hates and rejects them by ministries such as yours. I am NOT saying this justifies ANYTHING however where do people learn the Golden Rule? Where do people learn to be good, moral people? In Church mainly, and yet that is precisely the place forbidden to homosexuals by Laodecean Christians such as your friends whom you are proud to be mentioned with.
- When homosexuals form monogamous
relationships and seek to marry, thus obeying the biblical mandates and
conforming more closely with the principles of traditional family
values, the main opposition comes from the un-biblical, un-christian
Church who tells them that it doens't matter what they do, God hates
and rejects them! The blood of millions of these souls for whom Christ
died will surely be required at the hands of such "Christians" as those
you suport and respect.
- "Who art thou that judgest the servant of
another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made
to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand."
- And now, Bob's original post:
Dreambook wrote:
The following entry has been added to your DreamBook for (http://books.dreambook.com/allfaith/allfaith2.html)
Site: AllFaith.com's Dreambook http://www.allfaith.com
Entry number 17:
Name: Robert R. Larimer Jr
E-mail address: [withheld by John of AllFaith]
Your location: Vancouver, WA
Topics you read about here: Well-meaning, politically correct anti-conservative bigotry
Your spiritual tradition if any: Bible believer
Grade AllFaith.com: B
Comments:-
John,
I found it very interesting that you placed my name among some people I admire, such as psychologist and author Dr. James Dobson. Thank You!
Can you explain to me why the death of Jesse Dirkhising is any less shocking or horrifying than the death of Matthew Shepard? Give an honest, open, diversity-celebrating look at this account and let me know why you think one was trumpeted by the Left-leaning dominant media culture, while the other was covered up.
Looking forward to hearing from you. -Bob
The Death of Jesse Dirkhising
by Michelle Malkin (March 18, 2001)
Summary: In New York and Los Angeles, the national press hounds were more interested in covering the trial of rap star Sean "Puffy" Combs than in reporting on the tragic death of Jesse Dirkhising.[www.CapMag.com] "Jesse slowly suffocated and died."
A jury heard those chilling words this week in the opening statement of a little-noticed Arkansas trial. A mother heard those heartbreaking words spoken about her 13-year-old son, Jesse Dirkhising, whom prosecutors say died at the hands of two men who raped and murdered the boy during a marathon torture session. The trial raises grave questions about society's increasing tolerance of gay pedophilia. But in New York and Los Angeles, the national press hounds were more interested in covering the trial of rap star Sean "Puffy" Combs than in reporting on the tragic death of Jesse Dirkhising.
The details are sickening: On Sept. 26, 1999, Jesse was at the Rogers, Ark., home of a family friend, 39-year-old Davis Carpenter, and Carpenter's roommate and alleged gay lover, 23-year-old Joshua Brown. According to a local Associated Press account, prosecutor Bob Balfe told jurors Wednesday that "the boy had been given a strong sedative, then restrained while his own underwear was stuffed into his mouth and held in place with duct tape. Brown then folded Jesse into position atop a bed while supporting the boy's body with pillows."
"While Jesse was bound and helpless and naked in this position ... he was repeatedly raped ... over a period of hours," Balfe said. "Jesse slowly suffocated and died." The prosecution says Brown raped and sodomized Jesse with various objects, including food, while Carpenter stood in the bedroom doorway watching and masturbating. According to a police affidavit, Brown took a break from the assault to eat a sandwich. When he returned, prosecutors say, he discovered that Jesse was not breathing. Carpenter then called police, who found the boy naked and near death on a bedroom floor.
Police gathered evidence from the men's apartment that included lurid drawings showing a bound person, written descriptions of a homosexual assault, pieces of paper describing objects with which Jesse was sodomized, and a printed grocery receipt listing duct tape and other items found near Jesse's body. The defense will argue that Jesse -- outnumbered, overpowered, overdosed, and strapped helplessly to a mattress -- was a willing and consenting participant in this sexual torment.
This was a child. A 13-year-old child. A boy who should be riding a scooter and wrestling with his friends and watching cartoons and doing his algebra homework. That the defense could even dare make a public case for consensual sex between a 13-year-old boy and two adult men shows how far this country has sunk into the cesspool of moral apathy and cowardice. Public leaders are so worried about not offending gay political interest groups that they remain silent about the mainstreaming of homosexual predation.
The defense of gay pedophilia has metastasized deep and far into the national conscience. As Mary Eberstadt wrote in The Weekly Standard recently, "Today's pressures to normalize pedophilia are not the result of some omnipotent and unstoppable taboo-devouring social and moral juggernaut; they are occurring one bookstore, one magazine, one publisher and advertiser, one author and editor and consumer at a time."
One of the nation's leading gay magazines, "XY," is targeted to readers as young as 12. It features photo spreads of half-naked men and publishes profanity-laced articles supporting lowering the age of consent. Instead of universal condemnation, the North American Man-Boy Love Association (which advocates normalizing and decriminalizing sex between adult males and boys) receives praise and sympathy from liberal magazine writers and literary critics.
NAMBLA is the subject of late-night comedy monologues and the beneficiary of pro bono legal aid from the American Civil Liberties Union. Opponents of the group are smeared as right-wing homophobes; they and others who have criticized the media for ignoring Jesse Dirkhising's death are tarred as anti-gay propagandists.
Political correctness is slowly suffocating our sense of public outrage over behavior that is perverse, coercive, and wrong. This is why the brutal death of Jesse Dirkhising has been met with deaf ears and a cruel collective shrug.
About the Author: Malkin is a graduate of Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio. She lives with her husband in North Bethesda, Md.
Man Pleads Guilty to Rape, Murder (Jesse Dirkhising)
News/Current Events News Keywords: JESSE DIRKHISING
Source: AP
Published: Wednesday April 18 10:54 AM ET Author: Brian Skoloff
Posted on 04/18/2001 09:10:27 PDT by Geronimo
BENTONVILLE, Ark. (AP) - A man charged with masterminding the fatal rape of a 13-year-old boy pleaded guilty Wednesday in a deal with prosecutors that spares his life.Davis Don Carpenter, 39, was charged in the Sept. 26, 1999, rape and death of Jesse Dirkhising. Prosecutors said Carpenter diagrammed an attack carried out by Carpenter's lover, Joshua Brown.,p> The state sought execution for both men, but Brown was sentenced to life in prison without parole last month after being found guilty of first-degree murder and rape.
Carpenter's deal, approved Wednesday by Circuit Judge David Clinger, gave him the same life penalty on the murder count and another life sentence on the rape count.
Brown, 23, told police that he bound Jesse with duct tape and raped him with a variety of objects, including food, but never intended for the seventh-grader to die.
Medical examiners said Jesse died of positional asphyxia - being unable to breathe because of the way he was bound on Brown's bed. Also cited was an overdose of an anti-depressant: Jesse was too drugged to move to a position where he could catch his breath.
In his police interviews, Brown said Carpenter had directed the assault but did not take part. In a jailhouse interview last week, however, Brown told The Associated Press that Carpenter participated.
After the interview, prosecutors talked to Brown about testifing at Carpenter's trial, but Brown made no promise to testify.
Carpenter has maintained that he was asleep during much of the overnight assault and was awakened only when Jesse was found unconscious after Brown took a break from the attack to eat a sandwich. A witness at Brown's trial, however, said she saw Carpenter at her all-night grocery store buying duct tape.
Negotiations on Carpenter's request for a plea bargain intensified after Brown's conviction and sentencing.
Dirkhising's death had drawn protesters who say it deserves as much outrage as the case of Matthew Shepard, the University of Wyoming student who prosecutors say was beaten to death in 1998 because he was a homosexual.
So John, are you outraged?
Or should politically correct outrage only extend to people who are confused about their plumbing?
Date: 2005-12-01 16:17:35 (Pacific Time)
(Continued 12-4-05)
Hi Bob,-
Please see below.
Bob Larimer wrote:
Dear John,
Thanks for replying.
You didn't really address the coverage of the Jesse Dirkhising, and since you claim to value a 'free press,' that is of concern to me.
John: I think I addressed the question in some detail. Here's what I said: "As for why Matthew's case produced more media attention [i.e. than Jesse's] is an easy one. There are no religious ministries, books, movies, ads and thousands of years of prejudice calling for the rape, stoning, torture and murder of heterosexuals (I'm assuming from your post that Jesse Dirkhising was straight). There is such active prejudice directed against the gay communities. Matthew's murder struck a cord in the hearts of many people who understand that such attacks are not so uncommon..... .... However another difference is that in Matthew's hometown a number of people said he had it coming or that the murderers should be pardoned because, after all, Matt was only a queer and Larami doesn't like perverts. Are there websites with a photo of Jesse sitting in flames and counting down the number of days he has been in Hell? The Baptist Church site godhatesfags.com has such a page. Do heterosexuals like Jesse and his community have their weddings and funerals picketed by hateful men waving Bible's and obscene signs? Does a portion of the nation's spiritual leaders condemn Jesse from their pulpits, on their radio and TV shows etc.? Are there organizations like your WTV Coalition using tax payer's dollars to deny equal rights to heterosexuals like Jesse? Nope. The two cases are completely different and to draw any comparison between them shows a lack of respect for both victims. Both were killed by people who should be severely punished for their crimes."
I think that just about sums up my answer to the question. Stated more succinctly: The media coverage of Matthew's murder was about much more than one murder. It was the voice of America (or at least a segment of us) saying this kind of homophobic evil has got to stop. Matthew became, in this sense, a "poster child against hate crimes against gays and lesbians" and that is why his murder got the coverage.
As for a free press, absolutely I support it! I only wish we had one! "In 1983, 50 corporations controlled the vast majority of all news media in the U.S....In 2004... only 5 huge corporations -- Time Warner, Disney, Murdoch's News Corporation, Bertelsmann of Germany, and Viacom (formerly CBS) -- now control most of the media industry in the U.S. General Electric's NBC is a close sixth...." We don't have a free press, we have a corporate press. In other words, the problem is not that the US press is liberal OR conservative. If it was, we could read between the lines. For instance, a liberal watching Fox New could say, OK if they are for this or that, then I'm against it (as some mindless Left Wingers do!). The problem is that the media prints (airs etc.) whatever the corporation thinks will boost their ratings and, thereby, their increase ad values. A Woodward and Bernstien (sp?) today would be jailed and their coverage buried, just as happened during the Clinton scandals. Clinton clearly should have been impeached and thrown out of office if not jailed for numerous crimes, included Foster's death. If we had a free press they would have covered Clinton's crimes while in office as well as both Bush's illegal abuses of power and all three of these traitors would have been impeached and jailed. Instead, all three are viewed as heroes and patriots by many if not most Americans.
There is no real Left or Right Wing anymore, no Democrats and Republicans. The US has one party, call it the RepubliCrat Party if you will, and one ethic, "If it makes money and political clout go with it." Near my home is a roadside billboard with Arnold's smiling face saying: "California: For Sale to the Highest Bidder." This is what has become of our country, in part because we have no free press.
Bob: You see, censoring so important a story about an innocent boy and how he was raped and killed by homosexuals, then trumpeting a story about a drug deal gone bad, that pretends to be a story about homosexual victimization (were you aware that this is the case, not 'bigotry') demonstrates that America's dominant media culture is bent, and is in control of the Religious Left.
John: I keep hearing about America's Left leaning media but I don't see it. Every time I turn on the radio I hear Rush, Michael Savage, Reagan etc. beating the right wing drums and condemning the so-called liberals. On TV Fox News and MSNBC are, for the most part, very Conservative. CNN, once a fairly liberal news resource, has become a 24 hour a day "Good Morning America." With the exception of Air America, which is both fairly new and, for the most part, impotent, I see far more Right leaning personalities and shows than Left. As I say though, I don't this really matters much as the five corporations are merely selling the "soap" the sheep are willing to buy and probably couldn't care less about the good of the country or the direction it is headed in. America is filled traitors in my opinion. As for Jesse's case, as I said, I don't know much about the specifics, but if the case doesn't sell soap it wont air. As I said, I wish we had a free press, but we clearly don't. As for Matthew's case and the alleged drug deals, I've heard various versions of the story. To me, the most likely I've heard is that his homophobic murderers used drugs as a lure to get him out there. I don't see that this matters however. Just as whether or not Jesse was there seeking sex, whether or not Matthew was there buying or selling drugs makes no difference. You don't do this sort of thing to people! There is no question that Matthew's sexuality was at the very least one significant aspect of why he was killed.
Bob: Those who pretend to care about First Amendment Freedom and 'separation of church and state' have actually been indoctrinated into a new, replacement religion for Christianity: Humanism.
John: I agree completely. But does this mean that we should give up on the First Amendment? This is also why US courts keep disallowing prayer in schools etc. The New World Order believes that only its religion and version of morality, Secular Humanism, should be permitted. The Constitution is very clear that 'Congress shall make no laws concerning the establishment of religion.' There is NOTHING in the Constitution about the separation of Church and State etc. Most everything this government is doing is unconstitutional, of course now under the so-called Patriot Act the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, is basically meaningless. This "democratic experiment" seems all but over, and it has failed.
Bob: All the worship words chanted by the Religious Left, policy positions of the National Education Association and platform planks of the Democrat party come straight out of the Humanist Manifestos, first promulgated in 1933:
John: Its obvious you have not spent much time in religiously Left Christian churches! Many of the UFMCC churches, the Gay Pentecostal Movement, etc. are just as conservative and "Bible Believing" as their anti-gay counterparts. For instance, can anyone possibly listen to Marsha's Stevens' beautiful song Come to Water and question her orthodoxy? As for the NEA, I agree with you completely. Their aim is clearly to brainwash the country into rejecting God and any and all sentiments that do not support Secular Humanism. As for the Democrats, you give them too much credit I think. They are hypocritical politicians who will say anything if it will get them support. For instance, with a single dissenting voice, they wholly, supported the US invasion of Iraq. Now that the US is losing its unjust war against the people of that country and Americans are beginning to oppose it, they are trying to convince everyone that they were always against it. Kerry and all the rest of them are hypocrites. Plain and simple. At least Bush and company are consistent about their agenda to establish a global empire and force our corrupt system on the rest of the world!
Bob: I find that most 'Christians' who advocate for liberal causes are actually Humanist-trained, whether they realize it or not.
John: I think your brush is too wide Bob. For some this is true, but there are a LOT of exceptions. It would be like me saying that all Christians who advocate Conservative causes are fascists. Some of them, like James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwel etc. clearly do, but it simply isn't true to say this of all fundamentalists and other conservative Christians.
Bob: Again, John, will you tell me why Jesse's story was censored, while Matthew's was a cause celebre?
John: I'm not the one who censored the story, if it was censored, so I can only guess. I have given my opinion. Every year in this violent country of ours thousands of people are brutally murdered. The vast majority of these victims receive no national attention. I can, as I have tried to share, see why Matthew's case hit the national media. It was not "because he was gay," gay people die every day. It was the timing, the nature of the attack and, sad but true, it sold "soap" for the corporate media and provided headlines during a basically dry period. I don't see anything about Jesse's murder that separates it from the thousands of other horror stories that routinely happen in this country. This is in no way meant to minimize what he experienced. However just because his killers were gay is not enough to make it a "marketable news story." Gay people kill people, straight people kill people, celibates kill people, white people kill people, black people kill people... since Cain killed Able, people kill people every day. Of itself, that's not news. As I said, I don't know the details of this case, but from what I've found on the Internet since you brought it to my attention, his story just doesn't "have legs," like the Matthew Shepard case did.
The notion of a free press is not perfect of course, but I can think of no better alternative, at least not until Shiloh comes. The media has to be free to decide what is news worthy and what is not. I wish their criteria was not so driven by corporate considerations, but if there is to be any kind of free press, that press must be free to determine what is news worthy.
Bob: Can you face the truth about your indoctrination?
John: Absolutely! Let me have it!!! This is one of my favorite topics! You see Bob, I believe that we are all slaves, as it were, imprisoned by a system of disinformation and manipulated by the predecessors of the coming Dijal or Anti-Christ, i.e. the coming New World Order. I spend a fair amount of my time seeking to find and sever the ties and paradigms placed upon me by this evil world system. I am absolutely open to receive the truth. My question to you in this regard is, are you able to present this truth to me?
Bob: Hoping to hear from you,
Bob
John: I'll always respond.
Peace and Maranatha, ~John
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Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 20:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Death of Jesse Dirkhising
The Death of Jesse Dirkhising
Robert R. Larimer Jr, of the Right Wing group Washington For Traditional Values Coalition posted in the AllFaith.com guest book about the death of Jesse Dirkhising. In this post he challenged me to offer a rebuttal, as though I supported this young man's murder. As the post, and my reply, is too long for the guest book, I am posting both here (with a link from my guest book). I will first post his introduction to the topic, then my reply, then his entire post unedited.
Topic you read about here: Well-meaning, politically correct anti-conservative bigotry.
John,
-
I found it very interesting that you placed my name among some
people I admire, such as psychologist and author Dr. James Dobson (re
my: Matthew Shepard memorial page). Thank You!
Can you explain to me why the death of Jesse
Dirkhising is any less shocking or horrifying than the death of Matthew
Shepard? Give an honest, open, diversity-celebrating look at this
account and let me know why you think one was trumpeted by the
Left-leaning dominant media culture, while the other was covered up.
Looking forward to hearing from you. -Bob
So, here it is:
-
Dear Bob,
The fact that you would link the brutal murder of Mathew Shepard with the sufferings and death of this young man demonstrates part of why this situation exists.